Gary Hart in '04?

January 22, 2003

This partial transcript from Hannity & Colmes, January 21, 2003 was provided by the Federal Document Clearing House.

SEAN HANNITY, CO-HOST: As we continue on HANNITY & COLMES, I'm Sean Hannity. We do have some breaking news for you. As you can see, a strong earthquake has taken place in Mexico. Early reports say it is about a 7.6 on the Richter scale. We're going to continue to follow this story as more developments become available. Stay tuned to the Fox News Channel. We'll have continuing coverage for you.

And also coming up tonight, you'll see and meet a man protecting his children at home from an intruder, broke into his house. Well, he used a gun, had in his possession, and now this man is facing jail time for self-defense. He'll be here and he'll tell us that personal story.

But first earlier today, Alan and I spoke with former Colorado Senator Gary Hart. And we asked him about his political future.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HANNITY: Senator, how are you? Welcome to New York.

GARY HART, FMR. COLORADO SENATOR: My pleasure, thank you very much.

HANNITY: Now you're running for president? You want to formally announce it right here on HANNITY & COLMES?

HART: Well, actually we could do that, I guess, but it would be out of the ordinary, let's say.

HANNITY: All right, so you are -- you've got a web site. You are moving...

HART: You want to mention the name of it?

HANNITY: Would you like to?

HART: Garyhartnews.com.

HANNITY: OK.

HART: OK.

HANNITY: You are exploring the possibility of getting in the race in '04. And you want to run for president. Tell us, you know, why back in? Why now? What is motivating you?

HART: One of my friends said that a journalist had asked him wasn't I a retread? He said, no, because he still has the original tread.

HANNITY: Yes.

HART: I didn't go away. I have tried to be active in teaching, writing books. I've written seven books since I left office. I have lectured. I'm traveled the world, met with world leaders. I've been in Russia over 100 times. I've been visible and active. And I think most recently in the whole area of national security in the 21st century. I think in that respect, I was both attracted some attention by people who were looking for a different kind of candidate, new candidate -- new-old candidate.

HANNITY: Sure.

HART: And also, it gave me a cause that I feel very strongly about. And that is I think the age of terrorism is here to stay for the foreseeable future. And we're not prepared for it.

HANNITY: Senator, I may surprise you. I like a lot of what you say on terrorism. I think you've been ahead of the game in many, many ways. And I think you have a lot to offer in terms of the debate. We're going to get to that in just a second.

But the other reason you're getting in is because you perceive that your party, while they're great at bashing Republicans, is a party that is void of ideas in this day and age. Don't you believe that?

HART: You know, I wrote in my first book which came out in 1973, almost well, 30 years ago exactly, a 12-page epilogue, and I said exactly that. And I said that -- and I was a pretty young man at the time. I said the...

HANNITY: You still are, Senator.

HART: The Democratic Party has lost its economic message. And I think we coasted on New Deal, Great Society programs for a long, long time. And I don't think they -- that approach works anymore.

HANNITY: Do you think -- because I -- Alan and I battle this all the time. Most people have some stake in the stock market. Most people -- if we define rich, top 10 percent that pay 70 percent of the taxes, we're talking about people that make $92,000 a year. Senator, in any big city that is not a lot of money if you have a family. The class warfare rhetoric, tax cuts for the rich, the slogans that the mantra that the Democrats go back to...

HART: There's a mantra on the other side, too.

HANNITY: ... it's infective, though, isn't it?

HART: There's -- yes, there's a mantra on the other side. And as a public official, I faced it every day. So both ideologies have mantras. I would say this. There is a public good. There is a common interest. There is a national interest. It must be invested in. And it's not just the military. It's our natural resources. It's our children's future. It's the people of this country. There is such a thing as public investment.

HANNITY: Yes.

HART: And if you plunder that public investment to privatize everything, then you've sold out the common good.

COLMES: Does it frustrate you that the events that forced you out in 1988 now would probably be relatively meaningless and that there are a number of years of public service you had to offer your country and maybe you didn't have that opportunity? Is that frustrating or angering?

HART: Well, you know, well it was frustrating I -- because I think I did have something to offer. I was never a career politician. I never wanted to be in public life, public office all my life, but I did want to find some way to serve this country. That's been my principle motivation all my life. And to be denied that opportunity because of that single incident, I took responsibility for it. I've apologized profusely for it.

But I want to get on with my life and I want to make a contribution.

COLMES: Are there not people today in the Democratic field who you feel have the kind of contribution to make that the Democrats should be making? Do you feel you have something to offer that the other announced candidates...

HART: Oh, I do. I do. I think I -- my 25 or 30 year history in national security issues, particularly more recently on homeland security and counterterrorism is unique. I think my views on economics are unique among that field. And I think on foreign policy, I've had experience and a breadth and depth that none of...

COLMES: Sounds like you're preparing to announce.

HART: No.

COLMES: You've decided that there's an itch that has to be felt.

HART: No, no, no, no. I really -- I'm not being coy. And I'm not trying to protract this out. But there are a lot of issues. I mean, my family, a question of how my message resonates, what attitude my law firm will have. I mean, I have to make a living.

COLMES: How about the issue of how popular George Bush is, that he is fighting what many people view as a war -- popularly a war on terrorism.

HART: Right.

COLMES: He's been applauded by a huge number of people in this country. We may disagree about some of the things he's done, as you have, but the American public doesn't necessarily see it that way. Would that be a factor?

HART: We do have national elections every four years.

COLMES: Right.

HART: We can't suspend those. I think opposition, regardless of which party's in power, opposition plays, if it is constructive, plays a very important role in our society. There are an enormous number of people out there who disagree with the president. And they are looking for someone to articulate their disagreement.

Now of the 70 percent of the American people who support the president's war on terrorism, I don't think anybody believes it's going to stay 70 percent if Americans die in that war in Iraq in substantial numbers.

COLMES: How would a war in Iraq make us more vulnerable?

HART: Well, first of all, distract us from what needs to be done to protect this country at home. We're -- the war on terrorism is a two-front war that's being fought on one front. Started out in Afghanistan. It's migrating to Iraq. And the Council on Foreign Relations Task Force that Senator Rudman and I co-chaired documented how little had been done in the last year to make this country safer.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HANNITY: And we'll have more of our interview right after the break. And we're following the breaking news out of Mexico. A strong earthquake hit Mexico City earlier tonight. We'll bring you more information and we'll bring it throughout the night.

And later, after protecting his own family in his own home, one man is now facing charges and may face jail time. He'll be here and tell us his incredible story.

Stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLMES: We're back on HANNITY & COLMES. I'm Alan Colmes.

We continue to follow the breaking news of an earthquake in Mexico City tonight. Stay tuned to the Fox News Channel. More details as the night continues.

And coming up next, we'll hear from a man who's facing possible jail time for protecting his home and loved ones from a burglar. His story's incredible. We'll have it for you, coming up.

We now continue with more of our interview with former Senator Gary Hart.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HANNITY: We've got the Taliban on the run all over the world. We have homeland security, granted slowly it is now coming together. I don't think we're doing enough to secure our nation's borders. We can't win a war on terror unless we have secure borders. And the world, I believe, will be better off without Saddam Hussein having nuclear weapons. You don't agree with that?

HART: Well, that may well be true. The world would be better off if North Korea didn't have nuclear weapons, and a whole lot of other countries. But that -- I don't think is the centerpiece of the war on terrorism. And we can walk and chew gun at the same time. However else you feel about the war in Iraq, not one American soldier should cross the Iraqi border until this country is prepared for the inevitable retaliatory attacks. Even the Secretary of Defense has said the threat goes up.

HANNITY: Look, I'm going to put this aside for the sake of moving the discussion forward. I disagree with your criticisms of the administration. I think they're doing more than what you're characterizing here.

But let me say this. You are standing apart from your party. I look at guys -- Democrats, FDR and Truman and JFK, these are Democrats that understood the nature of the threat of evil in their time. And these men stood strong.

The Democratic Party, the modern left party today, has opposed most modernization of our military. They're the ones that continually vote to cut defense. They rendered our CIA impotent in the 1990's and said they can't deal with unsavory characters. You almost are standing alone as a Democrat supporting -- wait a minute -- supporting defense to the degree that you are. And I'm telling you right here and now I applaud that and what you're doing.

HART: Well, I appreciate it very much. I...

HANNITY: There goes all your (UNINTELLIGIBLE.)

COLMES: You don't want the...

HART: I have to quarrel with your characterization -- mischaracterization of the Democratic Party. Gerald Ford signed the order against assassinating foreign leaders.

HANNITY: Bad idea.

HART: No.

HANNITY: Every president has adopted it since.

HART: Well, but then let's don't say it happened in the 1990's.

HANNITY: Well, the assassination. But in the 1990s, first Daniel Patrick Moynihan proposed abolishing the CIA. And when they couldn't do that, Clinton went along with Torricelli's plan, which was to render it impotent and say you can't deal with unsavory characters. It shows a fundamental lack of understanding.

HART: Well, as recently as 1976, the Republican candidate for vice president on -- in a debate characterized the Democrats as the war party. If you want war, vote Democratic. Woodrow Wilson, Franklin Roosevelt, John Kennedy, Harry Truman, Lyndon Johnson all got us into war. I mean, that was the mantra. Talk about mantras.

HANNITY: I would agree that North Korea was a problem caused by the '94 deal, which was a bad deal, you know, abandoning nine prior administrations, rewarding somebody, hoping that we'd get along with them. Iraq, we did nothing for the eight years Clinton was in office. The only thing I'd say is I look at Republicans, and I look at the Reagan model. Reagan called them an evil empire.

He wanted to modernize weapons in Europe. He built up our nation's defenses. Tear down this wall, trust and verify. And we had a peace that nobody predicted when he came into the presidency. They said he'd start World War III. We -- that's the model I think we need to follow. Do you agree?

HART: No. I think there's...

HANNITY: OK.

HART: In a word.

HANNITY: All right, all right, come on.

HART: There is another option, but I don't think we have time.

COLMES: I've heard this Republican mantra. It's hard, but do you have some great ideas and you have vision. It's hard to always, you know, package that vision into little shows like this.

HART: Where's the beef?

COLMES: But you do a very good job. We're happy you're here. But this idea that I hear from my friends on the right, Hannity, my friend on the right...

HANNITY: You're pointing at me.

COLMES: ... happens to be Exhibit A right here.

HANNITY: Yes.

COLMES: The Democrats are responsible for decimating -- wanting to decimate the CIA, bad on national security, don't care about defense. And well, you know that's just not true.

HART: That's way over simplistic. It's way over simplistic.

(CROSSTALK)

COLMES: Was it not true -- there was Republicans who really started to decrease the military. They're the ones who decreased military spending. They're the ones who started closing businesses. I mean, but this left-right thing is ridiculous.

HART: I agree. There's something called national security.

COLMES: Right.

HART: How you define it is not a right or left issue. We disagree over that. And it isn't a function of spending.

COLMES : What's it a symptom of?

HART: It is not simply a function of spending.

HANNITY: Not simply.

HART: So all of this business about voting for more money, vote for less money, that's ridiculous. I mean, it's not the way you fashion a defense. And by the way, you don't fashion a defense with weapons systems. You start with people. Unit cohesion, advance officers for innovation and not by -- because they punched their ticket.

HANNITY: Don't we need that?

HART: We do need it. That's the centerpiece in military reform. But you don't start with the weapons. You start with people, then strategy, tactics and doctrine including maneuver warfare, which we used in Gulf War I. Then you buy the weapons.

But this drove me nuts as a member of the Armed Services Committee. Vote for more. Vote for less. That's not the point. The point is better is better. It's not more is better, less is better. Better is better.

COLMES: If we are to look at -- historically where -- how we got to where we are today, where is the weak spot? Why are we not as prepared as we should be? And...

HART: Well, Donald Rumsfeld is now moving belatedly 20 years after the military reform caucus urged us towards lighter, faster, more lethal, more reputable...

COLMES: You're talking about that 20 years ago.

HART: We were -- military reform caucus I helped create in '81.

COLMES: Right.

HART: The third recruit to that, after Bill Whitehurst, a conservative Republican from Virginia, was a young congressman from Georgia with a Ph.D. in military history. It was Newt Gingrich.

COLMES: You said to a speech at Yale, December 6, 1999, that we would be attacked by a small group of foreign terrorists using weapons of mass destruction, not thinking that perhaps an airplane would be a weapon...

HART: No.

COLMES: ... of mass destruction.

HART: Nobody knew how or when or...

COLMES: And you firmly believe that what happened on September 11 will happen again in the United States?

HART: Yes, well, not that. What will happen sooner rather than later is probably a biological attack on multiple targets in the center of this country. Probably smallpox in Denver, Cleveland, and Dallas.

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